The Tai Chi Push-is it effective?

[clouddragon]

A well known Tai Chi master from Australia recently posted on my You tube channel with his opinions on Pushing Hands and how it doesn't involve pushing. He also has annoyed quite a few Tai Chi instructors with his views on pushing. He said that if you join a Tai Chi class and the teacher shows you a technique involving a push, you should walk out as it is ineffective. However over the years I have had students come from all styles of martial arts to learn close quarters wrestling/push hands. Even western boxers when in a clinch push the opponent away to make space for an effective punch. Here is an example of the Tai Chi push or what we call a straight Ji as a use of force. This is done in full contact San Shou at the Euro Wirrel Chinese Martial Arts Kung Fu tournament.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVzEnoRuXg0]YouTube - Tai Chi Chuan (Taijiquan) used in full contact fighting; using push on an opponent.[/ame]

As you can see it was an effective way of scoring points, but imagine that in the street without a soft landing and the protective gear. At the lowest level it will create a fence. A very large fence in the above footage. I won't mention the Australian Internal arts masters name who criticised pushing as last time I mentioned his name my master had to spend half an hour restraining himself from killing me in ways you couldn't even imagine lol... but that's a different story!

[Medway Tai Chi Society]

I think I know the aussie you're referring to, and if I'm right, I'm not that impressed by him TBH.

In Tai Chi, there are two kinds of ways of expressing the various Jin - either as a long jin, or a short jin.
If you push someone with long jin, then they are pushed backwards as in the clip above.
If you perform the same push, but with short-jin, the power becomes very different. Instead of the opponent being pushed back, the power is more like a stamping strike, very penetrating and easily capable of stopping an opponent in his tracks.

[Chaleira]

Well, I don't know too much about tai chi's push, but that video looks convincing enough to let me know that it can be very effective. Pushing in it'self, tai chi or not, I think can be effective if used right in my opinion~

[clouddragon]

I think I know the aussie you're referring to, and if I'm right, I'm not that impressed by him TBH.

In Tai Chi, there are two kinds of ways of expressing the various Jin - either as a long jin, or a short jin.
If you push someone with long jin, then they are pushed backwards as in the clip above.
If you perform the same push, but with short-jin, the power becomes very different. Instead of the opponent being pushed back, the power is more like a stamping strike, very penetrating and easily capable of stopping an opponent in his tracks.

Yep you will know who I mean for sure he claims to teach the old Yang> I have taken a few of his students over the years by teaching them practical fighting applications instead of talking about Dim Mak etc.. But enough about him the guy in the video is Yang style and he uses a long jin as you said. I agree short jin is different and shocks the body attacking the nervous system. Both have their time and place!

[mikegraves]

Most people misunderstand the many methods in which a push can be applied...in the video clip the pushed I used was long jin, got underneath his root and push upwards and forward. Now when I become more skilled I would use a more dynamic push; simply visualizing touching with the finger tips then letting the palm strike down. Actually pushing from the legs, hips & waist, the hand is just the antenna. Striking and kicking are easily associated with causing an opponent injury but a push can be somewhat stunning & unsettling when you are not prepared for it & if very unbalanced...so much to it really.

[clouddragon]

Nice to see you on the forum Mike.