Mma trouble.

[andym]

MMA TROUBLE.
Could have been in trouble at work last month. For the first time in eighteen years, outside of the martial arts, I’ve had to hit some one ! Until this January 2012, I’d not needed to hit anyone outside of training. I’d always managed to sort things out by other means.

At work I’m very quiet , most know I’m a Black Belt of some kind, but I don’t talk about it unless asked and don’t show off. Too a large extent, hardly any one at work knows I’ve had nearly ten articles published in martial arts magazines over the years. A couple of years ago one of the guys there started M.M.A. training, he’s in his twenties. Recently he’s been tormenting me at work to wrestle with him. I avoided this until December (2011) , when he grabs me ! I don’t want to play and don’t resist, so end up on the floor. He thinks he’s God’s gift. I point out I didn’t join in, resist or try to stop him, no he’s not having that. I point out , how open to counter strikes, he was. No. he’s God gift.

Anyway, it happens again, he comes tormenting me, again. He wont be told, again. I avoid him, but it’s know good, he wont be dissuaded. He grabs me, again. This time it’s get off or else ! He wont let go, so….
Or else, a light slap to the groin. A little ‘bell ringer’, just to show he’s the looser, and I really didn‘t want to play. At this he looses his temper ! Pulls me around and tries to drag me face down on the floor and apply a choke - ala Gracie. I stop this - I strike! Right palm heel to left floating ribs, check mate. He’s on the floor now, gasping for breath. Lucky, NO broken ribs or I might have been in trouble ! That’s the way things go these days.

So for the first time since 1994, I’ve had to strike someone. The first time in 18 years I’ve not been able to stop a potential combat situation, becoming combat ! The MMA guy later complains, what did I hit him for, he was only messing about ? Telling.

This raises some interesting points :
What happened wasn’t up to me - he wouldn’t be talked out of it etc.
That you can ‘play’ at wrestling and it still works. If you ‘play’ at striking, it does not work.
Has this lead to the currant view that grappling / wrestling will always win ?
Again the currant view is. ’Fights will always go to the floor’. He tried and failed to get me down.
In MMA , they are punched in training as the wrestle, they are familiar with it. But, this is with mitts on ! Has this lead to a under appreciation of striking ?

I'd be interested in your comments
( this is just one of the way too many reasons I've been so busy and tied up to post much this past month)

[Chaleira]

Thanks for sharing, and hey... you did what you had to do
I don't think there is a under appreciation of striking though. I think that grappling has just been so popularized lately through MMA media that people who don't really understand true martial arts think it's superior in every way. But even good MMA fighters know how important striking is in conjunction with grappling.

[mcombatmethod]

I posted something related to this in the thread "MMA/JKD the same" today.

I have trained with a couple of MMA guys in the past.

They always look skeptical when I tell them that some things that they do may work for the ring but not for the street. I sometimes use the clinch as a way to show them. I ask them to try to clinch with me (without restraining) and when they do I defuse the situation by using something that is not allow in the ring (for example, hitting the ears or groin area with my open hands, attacking the throat or any vulnerable and open spot..hope you get the idea). The confused look in their eyes is surprising sometimes.

One problem is that they are looking MMA as the ultimate combat technique. I think this is due to the way MMA is being sold in our society and the popularity of UFC in the young crows.

MMA has lot of limitations because is something that has been built over a set of rules (sport rules), usually things that are not allow in the ring are overlooked and discarded as non-effective.

Anyway Andym, that guy was looking for it. You just showed him how to be "humble"

[Shikonboss]

You handled that well Andy. I teach all my students, children and adults that their body belongs to them and no one has the right to touch them. Self defence starts as soon as someone gets uncomfortably close. When I ran a security team years ago I hired an SAS dog handler just back from NI (shows how long ago that was) for our bomb sniffer dogs and one day as I walked into the Control Room he went to do a nukite strike to my groin from the side (he had been telling all the other guys how MA's were rubbish and wanted to make a point) - I blocked his strike and backfisted his nose in one unthinking move, breaking his nose and covering his uniform white shirt in blood - the other guys thought it was hilarious and he soon left the job as he became the laughing stock.

I've got lots of other examples over the years - No one gets into my personal space uninvited under any guise. They get verbal and physical - always err on the side of safety.

[empty cup]

Andy you are not responsible for some other idiots thought patterns, you defended your self when you needed to and that is what counts. As far as MMA goes, they suffer from idiots doing it just as much as MA does. Most fights do not end up on the floor (although most end up with someone on the floor). As with most fighting styles a good practitioner mixed with a good art is quite a combination and MMA has a lot of fine practitioners just as MA has.

[Raging Pagan]

Andym - I'm sorry you had to do that, sounds like it was distasteful for you.

I agree with your point about striking not working well as a training technique when used lightly (unlike, as you suggest, grappling). I experience tyhis at the TKD club I'm part of, where we will do light touch sparring. Whilst there isn't a problem for many of the techniques in themselves, I am concerned that it leaves less experienced students with the impression that they would simply be able to carry on after receiving certain strikes. I guess that for the striker who has placed a good punch to effect the kidney area there is some advantage in carrying on as though, for some reason, the blow wasn't effective - with the recipient continuing the exchange. But for the person who had allowed such a blow through their guard the learning is limited.

I'm not suggesting we all need to engage in unprotected full contact training each week (or even at all). I simply think that the realities of receiving some blows can be surprising - many people assume a blow to the nose will stop them so it's worth experiencing that once in a while. But mostly any training that leaves you with the impression that you can keep going after a solid body shot is unhelpful.

[Shikonboss]

I think the point here (that I probably didn't make too well ) is never let anyone into grappling or hitting range without having the advantage. Most bullies use 'tricks' to set you up for their technique - this should be an integral part f your training. Most victims are too shy or embarrassed to take action when they should.

[Ogriv83]

Andy, sorry to hear that you had to resort to such measures but it sounds like the guy needed putting in his place. As much as anything no means no.

As Shikon stated. Its your body and your space and if you don't want to join in then no means no! There will always be people who think they are gods gift and have a point to prove. You handled the situation amicably in my opinion.

[Taoquan]

This raises some interesting points :
What happened wasn’t up to me - he wouldn’t be talked out of it etc.
1) These happen, you cannot blame yourself, you did all you could, when it was time for action you acted, this is in accordance with all of our training. I agree with Shikon here, no one is allowed to put you in uncomfortable positions/situations and this guy obviously did. You shouldn't feel guilt (and now put yourself in an uncomfortable position).
That you can ‘play’ at wrestling and it still works. If you ‘play’ at striking, it does not work.
LMAO!!!! Too True!
Has this lead to the currant view that grappling / wrestling will always win ?
1) I think in many ways it has, I continue to hear this from many "MMA Wannabes" or MMA Fans, then I tell them "Okay try and lift me/move me" and I do some Tai Chi rooting techniques and they can barely move me. They seem so flustered, but that usually puts them in their place. But true MAists (MMA included) know that just wrestling and grappling is incomplete training.
Again the currant view is. ’Fights will always go to the floor’. He tried and failed to get me down.
In MMA , they are punched in training as the wrestle, they are familiar with it. But, this is with mitts on ! Has this lead to a under appreciation of striking ?
Couldn't agree more about the "Mitts on" comment! I think so many MMAists don't realize how deadly palm strikes, spear hands etc can really be! They maybe shown it, but they never FEEL it! Or Pinching, tearing, being able to grab small joints etc that is limited in Sports Combat, again I think most MMAists respect these things, but every now and again (like in your case) you come across someone who does not. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

I'd be interested in your comments
( this is just one of the way too many reasons I've been so busy and tied up to post much this past month)

First off,

I say dust it off, first time in nearly 20 years of having to strike someone unwillingly? Kudos to you! You have kept your "sword in its scabbard" well! Not to mention you did not do any overzealous techniques that could have really hurt the guy. Sounds like he needed a wake up call anyways.

[Kage]

Where in the hell do you work where wrestling occurs multiple times with no intervention, and co-workers can tackle each other without being fired? Did I miss something? You should have had him fired the first time! Just because two Martial Artists work together doesn't mean they need to be sparring partners. This could have been prevented almost in its entirety if you had dealt with the issues through the proper channels earlier on. This isn't the same as a school-yard bully, it's your profession.